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Sarah Linsenmeyer Interview

Sarah Linsenmeyer is my brother's sister-in-law and she is the owner of Wildflower Day Nursery ( Sarah's biggest passion is, I'd say, being a mother: so much that it IS her personal and professional life. Her perspective as a mother is so much different from mine and I always enjoy the chance to have some dialogue about it. Suffice it to say, I was gracious when she granted me the opportunity to interview her. Thanks, Sarah! Dream Pizza: Lizzie's Breakfast Pie with no meat. i.e., that pie I made for my break a year or two ago and decided to box it up and give it to her and her family when I saw a delivery come through for Sarah Linsemeyer. Boy did I surprise them! I couldn't help but eat a piece of it, though.

Recorded on 2016-02-15

Speakers: Joseph Weidinger and Sarah Linsenmeyer

Sarah Lynn's Mar. I'm interviewing you because I've always thought you were such an interesting person with conviction and ideas. You're out spoken, energetic and optimistic. Your small business owner, community leader, mother and daughter and sibling and one of the coolest and largest families that I've ever known. Ah, family that welcomes you with a tacit love, respect, time and time of day. So thanks for granting me the time of day here takes his downtown on Monday, February fifteen, two thousand sixteen.

No. Okay, the first question is what is the best thing for a human being? Like, Gosh, the best thing for a human being. It's. To be happy. Okay. Uh, what's your favorite form of information? Talking to other people and having conversations. Good. Why do humans collector gather information? Why do they? Because I think it's a natural instinct. Okay? It's instinctual. It's biological. Okay, so you're saying it's kind of hard wired, basically, Ideo, you know, working with babies and seeing, like, what their natural instinct is.

And it is like this, uh, like Dr Teo experience and gather more information about their surroundings and their world. So good. Uh, what's your earliest memory from my God? Um number, I think my earliest memory ISS sitting in my bedroom when I was probably about three or four in the carpet and where we lived, there were five children in one bedroom, and it had this bright pink carpet and I room. And it was shag.

And I just remember sitting on that carpet with my doll house and the light was streaming in, and I think it's that moment. And then there were five people in the right children. Their five children are the fifth one. Yeah. There were five of us that stayed in this room. That was our better. And we shared a bed there. Five of us that shared a bedroom, one of whom was a baby. Right? Okay. And then But this is the old house, right?

Right? Yeah. The house is big in this old house. Oh, I didn't know there's a half. Yeah, yet so my parents had built like, a little ranch home, and then they added this huge room on the back, and that's where all the girls stayed. And then when Mike was born, he was a merchant. And he was the last one. Yeah, that was in that house yet. Then he moved, and then they moved into that. You think that doesn't size house, right?

Yeah. So, uh, pink shag carpet, right? Shaggy is, like, furry, like, really long haired carpet. It looks like for for lack of better words like the back of a certain types of dogs. Yeah, like it's really long. Yeah, kind of retro. Yeah. Kind of seventy seven. These? Yeah. Yeah. Before your time. Whatever. Uh, this still around eyes, memory, a blessing or a curse? More. Oh, memory. I think it's a blessing. Yeah, me too.

Okay. Yeah, um if your ruler of the world always you do on your first day, my first day. Probably abolish all nuclear weapons. Like I am destroyed. Yes. That's probably the first thing I would do, man. Do you really want to know what I would do? Well, on your first day I know you. You have something in your closet at home that details ten year plan, right? As my leader of the world, that would probably my first thing, and then I would probably um I'd probably put mothers women at the positions of power and across the globe.

Uh huh. Like forcefully. Like, uh, mandate. Like every mandate that women. Now we're in charge of the world. I'd be cool with that. Yeah, I'm telling you, it's time. It's so time. So then I'm curious. What do you think about the presidential race? So hot? Are you seriously asking me about that? I mean, maybe you I don't know, not to get too slow because I don't really care that much, you know? But But if what I'm saying is that if we have a person right now in a position a woman, that could be easily probably one the biggest positions of power and putting a woman there is closer than ever before, right?

So I was just It was kind of I know. Well, I really have always thought that I would absolutely vote like even, like when, say, Sarah Palin was running kind of before she really made her announcement. I decided in my head that if a woman was ever ready for a president, I was going to vote for her. Right. Especially. She was a mother, but then say like Sarah Palin came around, so I couldn't really follow that.

But then when Hillary came around, I kind of decided going toe about for her. And then now I'm kind of on the fence. Yeah. So Hillary is not even good enough. Well, No, I am going to vote for Hillary, actually. Yes. Okay. All right. She's my gal. I mean, she's not necessarily my girl. She's a woman running for print and a mother, And I just think it's time you. However, if Bernie Sanders got a vice president that was a woman of integrity, I would probably vote for that pair.

It's possible. That's what I heard. Is that what he's trying to? I don't know. I don't know. So one of the things I did for the New Year's I gave up news whether and Facebook you have Facebook. I love to Facebook because, like, you know, I have lots. I'm connected in the community and all right, we've got a lot of information around of information friends, what's going on? Friends lives. Well, you know, like city Garden.

But, um, I gave it all up, so actually, I'm really I'm really I said I've isolated myself because, like, I was having, like, the's heart palpitations in the shower, thinking about Donald Trump. And and it was making me kind of sick. And so I thought, Well, I'm just going to stop it all. So I did. It's not biologically possible. Keep up with the information now. I mean, I know it's not. Our bodies are meant for that sort of, of constant updating.

I mean, yeah, I'm with you. I just there's nothing healthy about psychologically healthy. And And I also think that working with little children, I think it's so important for me. Teo, protect myself spiritually right? And we'll get to little children on and daycare because very soon and their stories and their three and the protection as in the sheltering. Okay, but but I have a few more questions. Okay, so, uh, you spend our were you raised particular gin?

And if so, are you still practicing? Oh, well, yeah. Yes. I'm sorry. Says a Catholic. And am I still practicing palaces? No, but I will go to church when I'm visiting my parents. Because they have You been to the hospital Mass? Just in General Hospital. Met another one in St Charles? No. Okay, So your parents go to that one? Oh, yeah. Daily. They don't go to the like, the big church form they do on Sunday. Okay, but the hospital that my dad served at his whole life has this Catholic Mass every at, like, eleven.

Thirty every day. And the priest is this the most amazing elderly man with a beautiful message. And so when I'm in St Charles, like we all go that we sent the usually really. And I tried to get my kids to go because they are baptized and have their first communion. So they So I did do that for them. And so we go and they get to have their little ritual and get to be a part of it. But I don't go on a regular basis.

Right? But we did take Katarina. Oh, yeah? Well, that Zen thing playing friend we're talking about, all right? Maybe I don't know if I overheard, are they? I heard it from Mom. Probably I wouldn't canter in the wind. No, that that, like clay. I think Fran may have said some. Really. Hey, let's give their kids about that. Yeah, Yeah, it's a kava touchy discussion. Yeah, touchy, but we'll take a break. Okay, well, talking and okay.

All right, So let's pick up where we left off, OK? Okay, so we're talking about religion, all right? And the one thing in elders on the type of religion, the elders, you go down to morning stars. Is that a religious? No, it's spiritual, which I think is really different religion and spirituality. So that's the same thing with Waldorf. I think a lot of people ask if Waldorf education is religious and it's not, but it's spiritual.

So what is spiritually means? Um I think it just means, um Oh, my gosh, spiritually means Well, I think it just, um means that, but human being trump. Is so much more than just kind of what you see. There's this whole other realm that we're connected to and it's the spiritually around, and so I think spiritually. Come on, so God, it's just this other. It's like it goes along with it, like your intellect, like there's like you have intellect.

You have, like like your physical body, and then you have like, a spiritual body. So it's just kind of part of every human being and of the earth. So, like I kind of see, like the Earth is a spiritual entity as well. So it's like a It's like a what you call that, like go intangible interconnectedness. Yeah, right. It's like a it's a it's a yet an absolute part of any living thing, but it's intangible in a way, it's, er it's on.

You can't really see it right, necessarily, but you could feel you know, if it exists, right? Ana feeling round, write anything. That's it. Excuse me. That is another question we might get to. Well, the American Indians and the Eastern cultures respect their elders and kind of I'm interested in this because you have these spiritually moments or you strike. Are you want to spend time with the community of spiritual people in the morning star community in She's kind of like you see in American Indians.

Yeah, so in and she's an elder right at this point. Ah, what? How do you explain so the Eastern Eastern people in American Indians have respect for their elders while Western culture is kind of more of a disdain, right? What? What do you think? Can you explain that? Well, I've been thinking about this because I feel like I'm moving into a kind of, um, like being an elder. I mean, I'm not quite there yet. You've got a wife.

I got away scope. But, you know, like in my work, I work with all these young people with babies. And so, like, I'm definitely the elder, you know? And in our, you know, if you think of an elder is like the oldest person. But I think that there's this real challenge. In our culture of having worthy elders. You know, I think so much of like what happens in our culture is that as people get older, um, they stopped doing They're purposeful work.

They get sick, you know, they're they're health declines. You know, all these things that kind of indicate an elder in our community is not necessarily like a thriving, spiritually human being, you know, and that's a huge generalization. But I think that I really see the value in as we older we get the more of oft we are, rather than kind of like stepping back. So the more evolved humans are as a species.

Well, no evolved. You know, each person can be like, I just feel like it's not a time to, like Shut down and go play on the golf course. You know, it's like a timeto like, um, evolve even higher. And I think that culturally, we're just, like, expected toe, like I don't even know what go walk on the beach and buy things. I don't know, right? Well, you said something interesting, and the whole thing was interesting about but one thing in particular you were talking about, um, people is spiritually fulfilling our do their meaningful work or something, okay?

And you said, people stop doing that before and I was thinking my reaction, that was we'll do people even to do their meaningful most of time. You know, that was a really good point. Yeah, that's a great point, because I feel like that's one of you know, when I think about myself, like how grateful I am that I've been able to get into work as a business owner. It's something that totally I love. And then, like so many people are caught in these other places where they feel like they have to work at a hospital in whatever.

It's not something they loved, but like what they really love, they couldn't make money at it. They couldn't make a living at support a family, which I think it's a real tragedy. Like these people with all these, you know, beautiful talents and dreams and desires. Don't ever fulfill them. So I'm very grateful and do you think it's because people like start families too soon or never. They don't have the courage to pursue the risks.

Yeah, those definitely are part of it also, I think. I think the message is that it doesn't really, you know, like you've got to get a job to pay for things. I think that I think that people get financially snowed so early in their lives, like if it's with student loans or if it's like, really shortly after college or whatever, you know. And so they kind of start off in a deficit financially, and then they feel like, Oh, I don't have the freedom till I really pursue the things I really want to do in my life I need to get a job That's really I make the money right?

So and oh, and then I think when you do that kind of thing, that all sorts of things, like addictions, can happen really easily. You know, when you're not nurturing like your creative side, it's like people they they have to get this job. But they don't like to pay for the bills that I can't believe they don't have. Our that think they can't believe they have at such an early age and in Teo to compensate for the misery play having it's like it's like four bad things come fresh one right and it could happen so easily.

You just don't have any idea. But the financial thing is so interesting, because I think people feel like, Oh, I've gotta have a car. I kind of have all these things, too, like fit into society, clothes and all this. And I mean, that's it with an Alison. I mean, I I was really, you know, I don't know about you, but like I didn't when I left college, I didn't have student loans. And so, like it's it's just something more than I'm reflecting on in my own life are in.

I feel really blessed in my, I think its blast, but that's something I'm still working on this forest. That goes because I have kids coming up. You know who we need to go to college, and I'm like, Oh, my God. Now, do I pay for all this? Because that's what happened in my family anyway, so that's a whole nother topic. But no, no, I mean, it's so relevant because basically, we're saying is that this freedom has always been allowed you to make good decisions that are healthy for your future.

Yeah, so it's as a parent, um, you know, regardless of your method of of for relieving financial freedom from a child safely and wisely get instilling that freedom somehow, if it's completely financially based or or whatever is very important for the person making decisions, I don't know, you know, I don't know. I'm really thinking about that because on the other hand, I think about all the decisions that I have made because I have been financially, I've had financial freedom and I think and I look at some of my siblings who are dealing with it, Teo and I'm not quite sure, really that it's like, you know, morning star.

I really feel like has they're so we often have many conversations about raising children. And she you know, her big thing is like, emancipate your children early, So when they're eighteen, they are. They're on their own. They're no longer on your paycheck payroll, you know, I just think I'm not sure. So I'm not sure like I'm responsible for my children after they're eighteen, you know? And and I'm not sure I'm still kind of working on that.

But my goal is a pair right now is kind of really hoping that I'm emancipating them now, you know, as a fourteen year old, those eleven year olds or fifteen year olds, you know, so that they are closer to emancipation by eighteen. But you know what I mean. So, yeah, and there's that question later on about about not necessarily totally financial base. But I do think that's probably the wisest. There's careful, but definite, you know, decline, end of support, right?

And then some people come out successful when it's all in once and they have all these pressures and and they make somehow the best decision. And a lot of people come from good places, and I don't know it's there's so many other fact there are there are okay, one or two more here before we talk about your business more. Okay, why is it so difficult for humans to consider the possibility that life may be pointless?

And the need to take another sip of beer for that one. Well, then, why would we? Why would life exist if it were pointless? I guess that's my question. I'm not sure. I can't. Are you saying you find it difficult to consider yourself pointless? Yeah, I think so. I mean, maybe not difficult, but just a dumb I don't know, Tio. Consider myself my life is pointless. Well, I just feel like I'm, uh I just feel like I guess I get so much.

Reinforcement. Maybe from my spiritual practices, the life is not pointless, that it's hard to even imagine. Right. So maybe maybe it's easier for people who don't feel very reinforced in this life time, right? You know, But I feel like I'm really reinforced for whatever reason. So good. Yeah. So Okay, Um what moment? Remembering your life where you absolutely and totally you were absolutely and totally love.

Work my life, I would probably say. Like having a baby, like nursing at your breast. I mean, there's not them. I think that's like that's a you know, just this baby. That's just like, Oh, anyway, that connection, That's probably it. Yeah, that's good answer. Thanks. If you're walking down the street today and met yourself is a twelve year old, what would you say to your told your old self? What? I would probably probably.

Reassure her that life is going. Teo. Evolve beautifully. You know, something like that. Yeah. Okay. Um, so I was this one's can't requires a little preparation. I was seen of your day care. Our school in our military nursery came upon the internet because I forgot the name temporarily. I mean, I must have said it to myself a thousand times, but in the moment forgot. So I was. I was like, Well, I can google my way out of this one.

You know, this is the twenty first century. OK, so I'm like Missouri. And then next words pop. My mind was nursery before I got any more detailed Wildflower nurse pops up, and I was surprised that had such a high presence on Google already. And the first off, Do you have a website? Oh, you do? OK. I thought that was gonna be the next joke. Like there's not even a website, but there's Anyway, um, it's not that great.

Oh, yeah? Well, come to find out that Wild flower nursery is another another nursery, but for plants. And, uh, somewhere in Missouri, obviously. Right down. Proceed out. Okay. Um, you're dealing with a legal battle of some cruel arses. Wildfire a day nursery. OK, that's good. I got into space on your part, but I was kind of thinking back Teo Joel solids and talks about, you know, Jill's halted, but he is a book called Family Friendly Farming.

Okay, well, it's just, you know, howto raise kids from a farmer's perspective. And there's one than, like ten books that Clayton Fran had when I lived there. So I read it and I couldn't put it down because it's Joel Salt, and there's a little bit obsessed at the time. But now he has a chapter called like Greenhouse Kids. And so I'm constantly so well, I was thinking that some, like main kids and plants, kids, some plants, you know, and so Greenhouse is basically saying it's okay to shelter your kids, you know?

Or it's okay if you were shelter. Because if you want to be human and voluntarily raees something, whether kid or plant Ah, the best way to guarantee success and health is by starting them in the greenhouse, Um, and that is in gradually and taking care of it and then transplanting. So that's what you know. Yeah, Yeah. And s o they're they're stronger and healthier. But then I was thinking about the very name of your business.

Which is it's So has that nursery element or greenhouse element, but also the name your business, which is wild flower of plant. They grows with little to no intervention, you know. And of course, it's just a nice is a beautiful name. But what do your thoughts on this duality with plants and produce or in children, but the duality being using or not using intervention? Um, like are you a greenhouse? Parents are on the scale of helicopter parent, too.

You know, my kids can fit it for themselves, you know, as soon as they're able to crawl. OK, personal weight is a parent or is a business owner. Well, both it's different. Well, I think it was, well, so in the nursery, like one of our like core beliefs Is that what is the word? In obtrusive presence. So, like we, or is it I'm obtrusive? I don't know. I think it's out of troops of present. So, like like we're there.

But we leave him alone. Can things. So, like, um, we're, like, nurturing everything around them. I guess if you could think about it this way at Wild Flower, like we're we nurture the space, we nurture the food we give them. We nurtured, like just the beauty around him, like through song and, um, beautiful people. But we try to stay out of there, waste much as possible so that they can grow on their own way.

Right? Like bacon sprout like their own being. Because, you know, each kid, each child Oh, it's this whole thing like Each child is like children of this age that we're working with are so close to the spiritual world. So, like, in my opinion, you know, they just come over the Rainbow Bridge from heaven to earth, you know, like like Greta, like, Oh, my God, like she's such a spiritual being. And there Oh, God.

And so I just feel like these kids are the same, You know, they're getting further and further away from it, but the younger they are especially. And so our job is just to create this, like, totally fertile ground for them to grow. And so I guess I feel like I kind of did that with my own kids. But I've learned a lot in fifteen years, and so I'd probably be doing things a little bit different than I did.

Well, that's actually a question that I had on here. Task is that since starting this business and being around that same sort of three to five, is it too? No, no, no, no. It's tutto. Twelve months. Twelve months. One one, two, three. One, two, three. Okay, sorry. That's okay. It's like, Oh, I only was off by two years, but like in the chowder. That's everything right. But since you started dealing with, you know brought back the mechanics of raising the small children again.

What's one major element of your parenting style that has one major thing that has changed in one that has remained the same since looking back, raising your own children at that age so, like my parenting is a little bit different than the way I am in the nursery. You know what I mean? So, like when I show up in the nursery like it's apparent to my children. Now, as fifteen eleven year olds are as apparent note as a parent to them when they were that same age, One of three.

Like, what do I do differently now? Yeah, for the kids of the nursery. Yeah. Like I never did this with my kids. But if I raise my kids again, I would do it that way. Um I think so much of it is just staying out of their business. You know, there's such this cultural pressure toe like if you when you become a parent like there's so much cultural pressure, like your child read to your child, stimulate your child, take them toe lessons.

You know, like all this, like pressure, the, like, do stuff. And I think especially in these early years, it's just like less is more less is more so. I think that's a big thing. And then I think you have a big things. Fear like I think so much of when I think back, Teo, being a parent of little people like there's just so much I had a lot of anxiety and fear about if you're doing it right, what the future holds.

You know all this like you think you have some control over there, evolution and existence on this earth, their destiny. But you really I mean, you could do what you can. You can give them good food. You can given pass and a poem. Too bad. But like in the big picture, it's really kind of out of your hands. I feel like and so I think that I spent so much like fear and anxiety about this unknown future. And so I would do that.

Les, I wouldn't do that every night, you know, And I still have to catch myself now, like with my fifteen year old like, Oh, my God, am I just not What am I missing? What am I not you know, for her, it's the big, like music, like, Oh, my God, I'm not putting her in the right situations where she's thriving musically. I'm like Sarah, That's a fear. Well, you know, it's like identifying Oh, that's a fear.

Okay, done with that fear. She's evolving, just as she needs to be. You know, like so I tried to kind of bring an affirmation a soon as I find the fear so living without fear, it's Valley. One of the biggest things I've learned are trying to live without fear, right? And fear may not be. That's the best word I'm trying to think. It doesn't really sound like you're afraid. As much as your fear falls, it's fearful.

It's kind of this fear of this unknown thing or this place that, um you really are in control of her life, so it's the same thing. Like I really feel like, Oh, I'm responsible for her life. And if she's not driving musically right now to my standard, whatever the standard might be, that something's wrong and I'm not doing it right, right? So I'm I'm moving that place. Good. Yeah, yeah. And just letting it be so not letting it, I mean, yes, I'm letting it be.

And I'm just like trying to support her in her emancipation, her life, her life and her, you know, like if you Well, if you don't pick up your violin and play well, that's okay. You know, just, like, kind of accepting her choices, right? So that's and maybe that happens. I don't really know know anything about parenting, obviously. But, uh, it's funny that as much as you know, the child evolves in the raising.

Children is all about the child's evolution. Uh, there's, like, an equal side, you know, a back road that is the parents evolution. Uh huh. That is direct. Directly correlates with the child. I think you're so right. Um, and there's I think there's these times. One like, if you haven't been doing your spiritual work and looking at what you're in, you know that you can just dive and kids dive with you, you know, like like you could take a turn and go downhill.

At least that's kind of was kind of some of the experience I had along the way. And then luckily, I had this support from a spiritual community that's hand Sarah, What are you thinking and being ableto? Look at that deeply and change some of those patterns. So when in these cases, like when you dive in and your kids dive, is it you that dives first or your kids that dive first? You know, for me, I think it's apparent that dives first because I think kids, uh, you know, they're just like they're living their life until we really messed them up through schooling and all that kind of stuff.

But they're just living their lives, so just from their own impulse like, you know. And then we get in the way with all of our over stuff, all of our issues, all of our fears, all of our assumptions, you know, and then they get sidetracked. So So I think when apparent, at least in my experience, when I've kind of die, you know, make a dive. It was not because of her. It was just the way I was interpreting the situation, you know, to really fearful right place.

Right? So yeah, I guess my big spirit torque throughout my parenting that's just been really changing my thoughts, noticing my thoughts change in my thoughts, because really, we just get to create our own reality, right? Well, and another question is perception reality is a good question. Yeah, creating your own reality. And And, uh, and that's funny because you've mentioned spirituality in the kind of connects of meditation.

Although, you know, one doesn't necessarily require the other. Maybe. But, um, I think someone who's a big fan of meditation I'm not personally yet at this point, but was saying meditation is all about being aware of your thoughts in a way and or just acknowledging the bad thoughts in the room and just sitting there like, Okay, I realize that. And so it all kind of came back together. Yeah, well, I think I like so much recently my work because I mean, like, in the last, whatever several months, the big work has been fear.

And I think it's just that moment when it just comes right into your life that you just notice it immediately and they need to find you. Oh, that's what that isthe. And then you just like like, realized? Like you're not not going to make your next decision based on that thought rather thin to clarify you meant when not when fear comes into it. Because if you has been there all along but when something when something triggers, like, Oh, you're able to see the invisible.

I like you when you said it's like someone that comes into your life. Oh, what a fear you mean. The real is that realization that that you're that you have here the breakthrough, the clarity, the moment, Clarity. Yeah. You know, that's what that feeling is. Yeah. That's what I've been feeling all along. Well, I don't feel like I don't feel like I, like, have fear all the time. You know, it's just like in certain thoughts, will trigger your fear.

So that's why it. So I think probably it's kind of dormant. What I'm like you think about something, I'd say so. I mean, if you're if you had fear all the time where you're afraid all the time, you'd be insane. And I think that's unfortunately, like our cultural norm is this like fears, everything, fears everywhere all around us. I mean, I think like I don't even want to say his name, but because I hate him so much.

But Donald Trump like his whole like platform. A sphere is what I feel like not just like working on this. A fear that's so on the surface for so many Americans, so many people. Yeah, and it's so many things like, if it's immigrants across the border, something it's like it's this fear that people don't even really even, you know, they don't experience that in the physical world. It's all in this like digital, right?

Well, so it's just interesting that and it goes back to what we talked about earlier, this global village of sorts, that that you can be afraid of something that impacts your life not at all, even or you wouldn't even know about otherwise if you whole world wasn't lit up with microphones, right cameras, right? And, uh, you know, there's there's just an infinite amount of things that we could afraid of.

Totally. So it's yeah, it's like a politician's job these days, almost to take advantage of take advantage. I think so. And it's so interesting because I I mean, I know what your parents are like, but I my mother in law, lives down Springfield, and her whole world kind of circulates around like her social network are people who are like burying gold in their backyard and, you know, building up their arms.

I know people like that, too. And so, like all of the information that's coming to her is this like, fear? Fair stuff. And talking to her is too shocking and devastating, huh? So I'm I'm kind of like, Oh, okay. I'm going to go in the other extreme I'm not having, you know, I'm just like, I am full protection. Well, in a good way, though, it's it's cool to have someone that you know firsthand. That's like that because you can always clarify things, but but also all right, like if if you didn't know her right and it would be just confusing, it is your right.

Like, how do people really think that way? Like, are those speak to those people actually exists, You know, that's what I would think. You're right. Going mad thinking about that? Yeah, but knowing someone so close, who's so into it, it's really it is really sad, but, you know, there I called my mother in law the other day and I finally said, Pat, you know, there are so many things that I here you are angry about, that you have no control over, You know, she's angry Catholic church using great Obama, she's angry.

And Hilary and all those people have seen was at this point, and I just, you know, and it was so interesting because I was just like, I'm just going to say these things to you because and it was I was trying to be is not threatening. It's possible. It was like, you know, you can't do anything about any of that. You know, like, we feel like we have this control like being angry at Obama is going to change something.

I don't know. I just I am so done with that. So what? It's kind of like trying to change other people's lives like, you know, when you're in a like a partnership for a marriage or something, it's so easy to spend your time wishing the other person with somebody they we're trying to change another person, right, you know, and it's just like, Oh my God, that doesn't work that someone told me once that you can't change it another human being.

But the success of any a relationship of any form is how well you deal with the things that you dislike about the other person. Meaning like that makes that it's you can change them. You can only change yourself. It sounds cliche, but it's it's just another way of phrasing it migraine and just, yeah, being ableto, you know, and then just making a decision. Your next decision that whatever you have to make is not based on anger, but just, I don't know.

I just feel like got the older I get, the less I want to engage in feelings like anger, fear, you know, like all that, like, Hey, we don't have any time space for this business negativity. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. Spiritually. It's just like, get really out serious about that stuff not coming into my life. It's usually not a good idea to just check out of things. But I think that's very safe to check out of Teo to draw the line.

Yeah, and I don't feel like it's checking out. It's really like noticing and then, with my mother in law, just kind of bringing it back to her and saying, Pat, this is what I'm seeing and you are seen from the way you're talking Or this what I'm hearing. I'm hearing so much anger at things that you cannot end like for me Saying that to her was huge, like because for you. Yeah, it was totally huge. I felt like I was totally going out on a limb, and it was so impressive.

You mean you were being more forward with the relationship Yes, I was tryingto evolve the relationship rather than just like avoiding her like, Oh, my God, I'm not going to talk to her again for till the election's over, right? I made a conscious decision to, like, try to evolve the relationship, which was a new pattern, doesn't always go well, but, well, you know, I realized I hadn't really ever done it in a way that was, like, non threatening.

I really felt like I just approached her with this really non threatening, like, not necessarily that I'm right. But just that I'm noticing so much anger about things that you really can not change. And she was so receptive. I can't believe it. Actually, the conversation was so beautiful. Wow. And she thanked me for calling, So I'm anyway. But I'm in deep with a teenager. And that's right. That is the biggest spiritually so far.

Yeah, and I'll just keep getting bigger. I think you know. You mean a necessity to strengthen your spirit? Yes. This's spiritual help with this teenager. Yeah. Tow live in harmony with the teenager I'm were giving my mom. I mean, we all did. I don't know. I know I'm not that I don't love my mother by any stretch of imagination, but you're probably much closer with the person in conflict that a conflict and rise.

Then I was with my mother. And that's one thing actually love about my mother. Uh, is that there was that distance and, uh, yeah, non not a non interest, but it kind of kind of like, entertain yourself. You know, uh, I've got things to do. I got a baby calls to make on and all these things to stay out of my way. So it wasn't intentional and income. It didn't come from a spiritual revolution. Maybe I think it's pretty safe to assume, but but still anyway.

Yeah. So, uh Okay, where is that? Here's. Here's one thing I won't talk to you about. Yes. What time is it? Okay. It's been a little burnout or about Okay. Oh, gosh. Wow. Time goes fast. I was seen an hour would be really hard to talk that long. No idea. Alright, so okay, I'll just say this, Okay, So I was with a group of awesome women the other day, and I told them honestly, that I really like you all because you're just such strong women.

And I said it because I had and have so much respect for them and think the world of him. Okay? But I was surprised and taking packed by the reaction to my coming because they were offended because they thought that implied that I believe women weren't strong by definition, or possibly further, I believe women were weak by definition stays strong, interesting or something, you know, But we have shopping quickly, made peace.

But I've been ruminating on this sense. I still think what they said was kind of quite a leap to make. But I also realize that maybe I should just said strong people. Uh, what, uh, what's your reaction to this? Because, you know, and I won't talk about feminism too. And the different, uh, in your perspective and clarification, for my own understanding, Because I I make mistakes like this all the time, and he helps her.

Interesting. But but you What's your reaction to that? Uh uh Well, I honestly thought, as you said, that was Well, of course you can't see it, Joseph, because you know the patriarchy, you know. Of course I can't see what that you saying to them you're such strong women would be something other than awesome. But he called that praise or whatever, right, because Yeah, no, go ahead. Well, I hear, uh I mean, I can't see it their way, but it just wasn't the first thing that I thought of.

And if they want a point, I probably wouldn't have. I mean, I can see it now, in hindsight, but, uh but I mean, from my opinion, you know, you know, there are weak women in their weak men and their strong women. I mean, yeah, I didn't know that. I guess maybe woman or women. Well, Edmund, this certainly carry a lot of baggage. Uh huh. That may be just has to be respected in today's it, and I don't know how to think about it.

I'm not sure what the context was like. Why you like where you wanted Toa proclaim that, you know, like what's going on? I don't even mean I The only reason why I remember this part of conversation was because they had there was such an emotional thing that for a little bit, you know? All right. I mean, yeah. Ah, God, I'm not sure I again I don't even really context quite completely, but, you know, It's just like when someone when you're with the group people and they just keep saying things that just blow your head off that does that just, you know, and you just have it.

You just have this feeling like I respect you. So just from one sentence I know, right? And so on, it probably came after he's like that are I don't know what the symptoms was, you know? Well, I can't say how you I mean, I could totally see how different people could kind of integrate your comment in different ways, but like, it also, kind of you were talking. I kind of thought a little bit about, like, my kroner, like, came into my thought for just a quick second.

And like, I don't know, like, I don't think he's awesome and I love Krystle. But I like, oftentimes they'll be around him. And I think, Oh, my God, he just really his perspective so patriarchal, you know, And I just like this, it's, um I just think maybe I don't know who you were talking to if they were like educated women are. But I think like people are just so much more tender about that kind of stuff are more alert.

What's all that issue? No and so. I like women like I feel like it's kind of like praising them. Like in a way you were praising. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, and I think that's kind of feels patriarchal. I praises Patriarch. I mean, that's I don't know. I understand. It depends on the context too. I mean, for example, at the beginning of these interviews, the first thing I do is is open up with a paragraph for all of the interviews.

Pair off, appraise regardless, if they're men or woman, you know? Um so it is probably just a context, but, I mean when someone says to me, for example, this is like I get them playing music and like, a good job. But I wasn't a good job. I didn't put life into it and the prey starts coming. I reject the praise like a stop that, uh because no, I don't know where I'm going with This is dangerous, you know, like rejecting praise in like And then I was thinking like, Oh, well, maybe it's Why do I reject the praise?

Do I have something wrong with me? Or there's a person obviously have something wrong with them that they can't even here determined, if that's appropriate or not. And but I don't know and relaying that too. You know, preysing a group of people that Meyer I mean, they must be all women. Yeah, well, I mean, it was like, you know, a guy that I knew and then a couple of women that I didn't all right known a little act, So yeah, it was that was addressing because I didn't know that much until then.

Yeah, I just think different people really take things differently. Like I'm trying to think of myself in that situation. If you were, you were saying that to me. I think there's this whole thing about how people have love languages. I don't think you ever heard of love languages. But like there's all these different types of ways that people show their love. Okay. And so, like, I have this friend Shannon, Her kids are at City Garden, Charlie and Robin.

Her love language is gifts. Okay. Like she is always making these beautiful gifts and giving them to people like that's how she, like, okay, shows her love so and like my sister, Sue her love languages like acts of service like she is always wanted to do these things. For people always kind of a one step ahead. It's fascinating. And I think for like for me, I feel like one of my love language might be information, you know, like that, something like I need.

So, like, if you were going toe, if you praised me, I might not have that defensive place because it's something that like I'm comfortable with. But like if you praise a different person, I mean, I just think different people could just really interpret situation so differently, right? Um So, in other words, it's like in praises. Delicate thing, I guess. And that sort of sense that, uh, if you don't know the people well enough, that's part of it.

There's a risk. Yes, I think you're probably right and, you know, they may not know. I mean, you're just a frightened girl like you're someone who has so much like a lot. I say less for life. But, like, you know, just like you're you're a therapy. You're like, you're like your energy body. It's just really, And I don't like, just like your energy about your energetically vibrant person, you know? You know what I mean?

So, yeah, if you don't know you the way you operate, right? It's like, besides that comment that it's like, Whoa, buddy, you're being too much. Yeah, it could be like that. But if you said that, like me, I wouldn't necessarily have that reaction. All right? So yeah, so it's just It just depends. Yeah. Ah. Do you consider yourself a feminist? This is pretty obvious answer, too, I think. Maybe. I mean, I think so, Yes.

Yeah, but maybe not the same way other people defined themselves. This feminist. Well, that's funny, because what I wanted to ask about it was how does feminism relate to being a mother? Er, I don't know this, mate. This is just my perspective, but, uh, some feels like today's. Well, I just know a lot of people who might describe themselves. Feminists are almost anti mother in a way. Not No, that's interesting.

You know, they're just They don't want children just butt yet. And so they feel so strongly about that. But then I meet, like, basically the world. I'm surrounded by people like you. Hi, sister, or whatever. People who all feminism means of them is right. That's really interesting. So I was wondering if you any thoughts on that? Maybe they're both sides of the same coin somehow, but I haven't been ableto understand, huh?

I think for me in my life, like feminism. Something different when I was in college and I had something different before I had kids. And yeah, so, like means different things throughout your life. And for me right now, I feel like feminism, really, uh, relates to kind of honoring, like the sacred feminine. So, like this idea that I mean, this might sounds also weird to you, but I guess like putting that all together is like, spiritually.

I just feel like the earth is feminine, You know, there's just like this feminine energy and like like patriarchal culture has just, like totally squashed women spiritually and on other ways. And so for me right now, like my way of being a feminist is by deeply nurturing the sacred feminine. So it's kind of like the deeply spiritually feminine kind of trying to keep alive this idea that women are powerful spiritually beans, You know, I mean, we frickin I mean, I don't need to justify all that that necessarily, but like, I mean, my God, we, like, create.

Our life is created within us and, you know, just like all these miracles that women d'oh just by the fact that they're women and so for me it's just kind of honoring all of those amazing things and trying to live in some equitable way in this culture that is so patriarchal, right? And unfortunately, right now in my thoughts, I kind of feel like patriarchy has also has been just so destructive. So for me, it's like feminism right now is really noticing how the patriarchy is destructive in my life and how I've allowed it to be destructive and kind of like how I want to move that space, and I feel like the Catholic Church is.

On so many levels. Really? It's so patriarchal, you know, right? But, you know, my morning start just got back from a pilgrimage down in Mexico and like it is so interesting. How the Mexican culture has worked with patriarchy of the Catholic Church were like. Even though there's still priest that reside on the altar like all the icons are women. You know, all the icons air. You know, the virgin is kind of bit.

That's how they've been able to preserve a sacred feminine in their life, you know, in their culture. And it's a beautiful thing. Yeah, in the American Catholicism. Maybe you could summarize by saying within the focus on Jesus more than it's all about Jesus and Mary. Yeah, and down there it's opposite. Probably feels like it. Yeah, like because they had such strong. Uh, feminine religions. Before the cap, the priest came as it as all over the I think human experience, like the spiritual foundation was based on the the sacred feminine and then whatever, it's evolved into this other crazy, weird place.

So as a feminist, I I feel like I'm trying to preserve the sacred, feminine my life, and then hopefully in my daughter's lives and and noticing where the patriarchy is Just rain. You know, it is just right that my own life. Like what? Um good. So I'm not a thousand percent clear on the sacred feminine. And, uh uh, but I and I definitely understand what you mean about yeah. Aware in this of the way things are with a patriarchy.

Yeah. I mean, just one say one idea is the sacred favorite. Feminine is your sister, Korisa. And the way she birth that baby that is the sacred, feminine Greta's home, alone. Home alone. Yeah, like that is not for weak wish. I mean, that is a powerful, sacred, feminine experience that, like, women don't get that anymore because it's been so taken away in for Chris. It just to be like this. Nice shoes wishing that for weeks and months before she did it like I heard her speak at best is what you want.

And she made it happen in the midst of all the granted. Granted me tohave. Yeah, well, then there's that. Then there's that, right? So just that beautiful place of like women being able to claim their the potential power in their lives without being afraid or having their husbands say, No, you can't do that or whatever your sister. I love my sad story, which I tell it to everyone I possibly can. Everyone, I tell it like, blows back in her head off because they're getting with that someone is having a baby at their home, right?

Much less alone. Right? And despite you know that probably it happened so fast. It was kind of just that natural, uh, fast evolution of events that that morning. But on So it might not have been alone if it would just happen a little slower. Like she wasn't Maybe. I don't know, Maybe maybe her grand secret is that she knew something cool. I I mean, for her to speak like this is what I want. Yeah, and for that to be what actually happened is just but, like, she couldn't have done that without, like, I don't I mean, she could have done it if, you know African.

You know, women in villages all over the world do that. What? Krista did you know? But luckily, she had the support of mornings are community Teo. Like all of us that were like, Yes, do it. You know, in the evolution of support, I mean, he's been ongoing thing, and it's her first birth was is home or zipper links, and I think But if she was said, hey, or if someone who said, Hey, you're you're gonna have this baby home alone like she may not have been ready.

Fright. Exactly. I don't think she probably would have either. I mean, I think she probably say the same thing, but I think the sacred feminine it's just this place of, like, women are powerful and we give away our power. Like through Dale, you know, like, gorgeous. So you forfeit your power, we forfeit. Yeah, and partly because we're trained like I've trained that Sorry for food. I didn't mean like I mean, I meant I wanted to clarify.

It's not like giving away like I'm giving this present, Tio. Ah, but you're not forfeiting this sense that, um, there's a there's a better word. I know what you mean. No, you're forced to give it away on probably expectations is whatever, huh? I think we're trained from, you know, very early. Just to be. Of course we are. I mean, because it's just our cultural norm, right? So I think preserving the sacred feminine is just connecting with the deep power within and then be able to live it throughout our lives.

Yeah, that's good. I like that. Okay, um Okay, so let's see. Yes. All right. So we're goingto start this last section of the interview. Okay. These questions or not is long in depth. Um, so, um yeah. So I'll just started. Hi. What? Guys, Your decision making, uh, Allen Ginsberg said, first thought, Best thought. Other people said blink. Sort of get decisions aren't always useful. Is there a sort of method you employees or at after?

Wait a day and sleep on O R for my best. For the tougher decisions, you know, not not like Ocean eight now or later. Sure so with your business. Yeah. Uh huh. I think I'm the kind of person who, like, has the inquiry come into my, you know, life in whatever way it does. Like, um, yeah, I he said, like a business decision. But, like, more like, okay, it could be a decision. Are some sort of inquiry or some sort of like thing coming up, you know, that I need to make a decision about.

And I think for me, I just kind of like, I think my practice is like, kind of asking for. Um, intention. Like my intention, like what I want is this what I want is happy employees and then just kind of letting the answer come, right? So for me, it just don't release the like. I asked the question to the universe what is next? And then often when I do, it's like, give me clarity, right? I asked for clarity, and it's, you know, I guess probably some people do it through prayer or whatever, but I just like I'm like, okay, universe, any clarity on this issue, and then I feel like it always comes.

So that's how I kind of managed. So it's kind of like intuition, but with patients. Yeah, like I ask. And then I wait, right? And I know that it's coming and it may not show up in the form that I've I thought it would right, but it feels like it never fails. So that's kind of how I operate. Cool. Put in order, words starting with the most important. Okay. Who what, when? Where and wife play. What? Um the point might say where?

Interesting. Where is the first one is the most important. Well, what's the second like? Put him in order. Oh, for God's sakes. What? And when you say where you said where right is the most important well, it's a kind of depends, No, I depend on what they asked you to write. But if you say Where is the first one, do you mean a physical space or do you mean like a mental space? I think physical. Like if so, I'm just like the thing that came into my head like like somebody like somebody's hurt at Wild Flower.

Like I hear a child crying. Okay, so my first thing would be where they like where, um but then, like what is happening? Like what is what is what has happened to you? And then, like later they inquire like who did it? Are you are? How right? So where? What? When? How Hill, Who hurt you? Anyway, I think the most important thing with that question, I think, is what context the person puts. Yeah, totally, of course, that there would be different from context.

But the contacts that comes to your mind is like, what? The answer to the question is almost in a way. So I'm always I haven't asked a question with a lot of people. But every time I have asked it, I've been surprised by like, Oh, I wasn't thinking about that, you know? Yeah, but I guess it's like where your head is totally what's on your mind? What? Tell Italy what is important to you? Yeah, for me. Like oftentimes.

Like if a child is hurt, which is one of my big issues like because I'm responsible. You know, if someone screaming in Ukraine like it's more like, where does it hurt our? It's not like who did this to you? Right? Heard what happened. It's more like where? Where you hurting? You know? So And then, like all the other enquiring comes next. Right? Good. So Yeah. Okay. What's more important, conviction or compromise?

Oh, goodness. Right now. My life had say, conviction good used to be compromised. Turnout's conviction. I can dig it. Okay. Um is ambition based more on fear or joy in my life? Look right now, I'd say joy used to be probably fear. But now it's joy. Good eyes, loyalty based on reason. I don't think so, but well. I hope not. I like that answer, but yeah. Um how do you find peace of mind here? Right? Well, I mean, there's physical things like yoga and walks and time alone, but I think more than anything, it's just changing my thoughts, you know, change noticing the fear, fear and and really seen it good should told the paper.

So over the under the rule of really Yes, absolutely. Okay. Ah, if a publisher was to release your autobiography off the top of your head well with title be. It was like I never talk about myself of this God, right, um that's I wouldn't have to pass on that. Okay, uh, what was that? You wanted to send the glue in the binding with snow. I said I thought about the scent of the globe like citrus, Okay. If the statues built in your honor, where would it be displayed in what we made?

Oh, God. What would it be made of? Like, what are you? That is so funny. That is one to think about. But I think just like right off the top of my head, that be me with a bunch of little children, like in my lap and stuff good. And, I mean, it would probably be kind of a while, you know, the church. Probably made out of, like a carved like a carved with. Okay. Yeah, I didn't. Um er what questions remain unresolved for you?

The questions of, like, life questions could be anything unresolved. What? Unresolved questions. Like in my life. Like life like big, like you put in the context of your questions. Unresolved question on result question for me is like, what is the best way? Tohave an amazing container garden. Good answer. That's one thing I'm always like. What? Yeah, like building that soil and keeping it healthy throughout the Yeah.

So that's why one recent question I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure my George has dance. I bet he does. Okay. In the last question, what is the healthiest cultural shift you see developing today? Yeah. Yeah. It's. Uh well. That's a hard one. Do you want to substitute last question? Okay, sure. What gives you most optimism? Okay, that's good. Uh, Bernie Sanders. There you go. They haven't. That was easy. All right. Thank you very much.

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